This discourse is from the one who educated me on the divinely decreed code of peace of mind for me as one from non SHIA social background and a psychologist working for peace having prayed in childhood for being one doing good for humanity after Salatuttasbeeh at Bhorang river after Maghrib salaat.
On Thursday, 24 May, 2018, 9:25:18 AM IST, Khan <> wrote:
This fool Siddiqui wants me to believe that Imam Mahdi (the real one) carries a "black flag"....I am laughing....they cling to fabricated hadis and make such outragious claims...
Imam Mahdi will be from the family of the Nabi and the colour of Ahl ul Bayt and Islam is not black which is the colour of 'death and destruction"...today known terrorists use this "Black" coloured flags...like ISIS...Taleban....etc....the guys blabbers like a whackadoddle !...
What has Islam of Nabi got to do with such Jihadist?...
Qaseemu concedes that Fatimids were good muslims...Another name for the Ismailis is "Fatimids"...and they take real pride in their history and ancestry....whereas you take false pride in heros like Muawiya/Yazeed and Saladin !
Sura al An'aam was revealed in Mecca and the great Sufi Najmuddin Kubraa used to say...
"the truth alone knows what is true.." - these Muawiyan guys are too far away from the truth...
And in the Quran...you will sense that certain verses do highlight distinctions between subjective imaginations and objective reality !
Seeking the "essence of God" - here the word essence means "wajh" conveys a meaning of aim, goal, objective, sense, honor and sake....
Orphans and wayfarers have none !
There may be exceptions...but that is all...
Take the time to read Sura al Nisa and Sura al Munafiqun and the quran please and don't come on the net with all this Umayyad ignorance of yours....and your intimidation as it does not ruffle me...
You will find corroboration of so many important issues in the Quran .....
Read the mutawatir ahadith of the Prophet SAW.....there is corroboration.....and then read Sura Yaseen - which is the heart of the quran...
The wrong - doers have been assured by Allah..."MY Covenant reaches them NOT.."...as had been indicated by Allah to Abraham (Sura al Baqara - 124)...which the Kaffirs do NOt even understand....
Imam Mahdi's colours will be same as that of the Ahl ul Bayt of Nabi....! NOT Black....!!!!....Now please go to sleep and start giving Khums !
***********
Zina,..Thanks for sharing a very enlightening topic on the Fatimids. I searched for books on the Fatimids and found this to be useful.
Instead of giving unfounded biased opinion by some people, they should make an attempt to understand the Islamic civilizations first.
Keep chugging. I enjoy your posts which is full of scholarly references and not just opinions.
****************Forwarded Message************
'O Rasool of Allah (Sallallaho `Alaihi Wassallam),
we have heard from you today something which we never heard before'.
Prophet~ (Sallallaho `Alaihi wasallam) said...
When I climbed the first step,
the angel Jibraeel (A.S.) appeared before me and said...
the angel Jibraeel (A.S.) appeared before me and said...
Ramadhan'
...upon that I said 'Aameen'.
When I climbed the second step, he said...
When I climbed the second step, he said...
'Destruction to him before whom your name is taken
and then he does not make Dua of Allah's blessing for you'(by saying, for example Sallallaho `Alaihi Wasallam).'
and then he does not make Dua of Allah's blessing for you'(by saying, for example Sallallaho `Alaihi Wasallam).'
I replied 'Aameen'.
When I climbed the third step, he said...
When I climbed the third step, he said...
'Destruction unto him in whose lifetime
his Parents or either one of them reaches old age,
and (through failure to serve them)
he is not allowed to enter 'Jannah'.
I said 'Aameen'.....(Yasmin)
- 'Tawheed' is the key to Paradise.
- Asking good questions and being attentive is the key to knowledge,
- Patience is the key to victory and triumph.
- Gratitude is the key to increase of provision.
- Remembrance of Allaah is the key to having loyalty
- to Allaah and His love.
- 'Taqwa' (piety) is the key to success.
- Fervent desire and dread of Allaah is the key to being successful.
- Dua’ (Supplicating) is the key to being responded to.
On Wednesday, May 23, 2018, 3:00:40 PM EDT, Khan <> wrote:
Laulak Siddique <>
Shia just means "partisan" in Arabic. During the war between Ali RA and Muawiyya LA the followers of Ali were called Shian-e-Ali, and the followers of Muawiyya were called Shian-e-Muawiyya. No great mystery here.
During the Fatimid reign, Muslim and non-Muslim communities were by and large permitted the performance of their religious rituals and obligations.
The Fatimid sponsorship of mosques and congregational spaces was retained not only for the construction of new Fatimid mosques, such as al-Azhar and al-Anwar, but was also extended to Sunni religious spaces.
The latitude afforded to the Christian , Muslims and Jewish communities in the maintenance of their spaces of worship and the performance of their religious rituals became one of the notable features of Fatimid reign, as recorded by Severus Ibn al-Muqaffa (d. 987 CE), the Coptic bishop of al-Ashmunayn, who was among the most well-regarded theologians and writers of the Coptic Church in the early medieval period.
It was the safeguarding of the Coptic spaces of worship by the fatimids that led Ibn al-Muqaffa to remark that there was ‘great peace for the churches’ in the reigns of the Fatimids...but this was whilst the Ismailis were still around...
The functioning of Christian religious life was further realised in the state protection of the performance of their public festivals.
Al-Maqrizi notes in his Khitat that numerous Christian festivals were celebrated during the Fatimid era,
Doctrinally, their model was underpinned by a universalist notion of authority of the divinely designated Imam-caliph.
Pragmatically, the model evolved with their experience of governing diverse communities across a vast terrain.
This led to a relationship between the state and its diverse subjects, which fluctuated with time and circumstance.
While participation of non-Muslims in the administration of Muslim polities was common in the formative period of Muslim rule, Fatimid governance has been presented in medieval Muslim chronicles and in modern scholarship as being exceptional in this regard....so what is this guy Siddiqui talking? Just rubbish !
Varied arguments have been postulated as to why, the Fatimid approach to governance as a Shi‘i minority was seeking support from other minority groups....this is how even the Prophet would have handled it...
The Fatimid claim to universal authority was asserted in direct opposition to that of the then reigning Abbasid caliphs (whom Saladin represented in reality but surreptiously accepted the position of a Vazier also with the Fatimids... Abbassid caliph was trying to emulate the Shi‘i model of the Imamate harkening back to the notion of the Imam being authoritative in law and doctrine.
In their early years the Abbasids had sought to realise a similar model as that of the Fatimids.
In the 9th century, they exerted strenuous efforts to stem the rising prestige of the proto-Sunni religious scholars, the ulama, with the caliph al-Ma’mun’s so-called mihna (or ‘trial’) and the inquisition of Ahmad b. Hanbal (780-855 CE) being a case in point; but they were swimming against the consensual Sunni tide.
The mihna had been instituted by al-Ma’mun (r. 813-833 CE) to ensure he was recognised as the supreme authority on law and doctrine...but failed !
With the assertion of divinely-mandated authority over doctrine and belief, as well as their legal and theological interpretations.
The distinction of the Fatimid model of governance stemmed from how the Fatimid Imam-caliph, as ruler of a vast empire, exercised this authority.
As authoritative exponents of doctrine, every Fatimid Imam was able to reform and reformulate, to adapt and to alter, and thus to negotiate the relationship between the ruler and the ruled, as he deemed appropriate.
The notion of the living Imam as the ultimate arbiter of human affairs meant that the Fatimid sovereigns had the potential to be authoritarian, with unfettered power at their disposal....but
A study of their governance structures reveals that by and large, they maintained an inclusive approach to governance...e.g al-Mansur’s appointment of a Maliki administrator over Qayrawan instead of an Ismaili or a Shi‘i one....OR the treacherous Saladin's appointment as a Vazier !
This was replicated across other Fatimid regions where Sunni qadis were appointed over towns which had a Sunni majority, while retaining Ismaili qadis over the Fatimid cities of al-Mahdiyya and al-Mansuriyya.
Hence, two judicial systems with their own legal codes were given official sanction and support.
In all likelihood, it is this development towards more inclusive governance which saw al-Mansur being held in particular regard by the Sunnis of Ifriqiya.
The Aman document was publically read out to the populace of Egypt on the eve of the Fatimid conquest.
It set out a blueprint of Fatimid governance.
Its stipulations represent a practical manifestation of the principles of Fatimid governance, namely, an administration that sought social stability, justice and prosperity fostered by the universalist authority of the Fatimid Imam-caliph.
It reflected the developing conceptual underpinnings that subsequently became the standard by which they reigned in Egypt for the next two centuries.
The import of the Aman document continued to reverberate in Egyptian historiography as well as in Ismaili writings over the subsequent centuries
Really? Never knew it was so simple an explanation...and so then whose "Shia" are you? Uthman,Muawiya or Yazeed? Can't be !
Must be Saladin the treacherous rebel who betrayed his amanat whilst he knew...and the Quran disdains such people who betray their trusts..!!
"..The Fatamids were terrible rulers. .." says Siddiqui
Who says? Do you know that the Fatimid rule was one of the most glorious period in Islamic history?
Through their framework of governance and, their Aman format, they sought to present a unifying vision of Islam, in which various Muslim traditions, Sunni and ‘Shia, were accorded their own place for belief and practice...
Saladin proved a treacherous "Vazier" who proved utterly greedy and disloyal and betrayed his trust whilst he knew and Allah says 'do not betray your trusts whilst ye know.."....
And when the Ismailis and the Mustealis parted....the Mustealis had become significantly weak as the Ismailis had moved to Alamot....until the Ismailis were there...saladin was too weak to further his "Abbassid agenda" !
And so Saladin, as is typical of people like you , from your cult, revolted against the Musteali Caliph and betrayed his trust as a Vazier...nothing to be proud of...rather its shameful and absolutely Unislamic behaviour and goes against the Quran....
Aren't you guys having the same genes of undermining your own governments and countries?
Aren't you guys having the same genes of undermining your own governments and countries?
Siddiqui , Lets continue with the theme...
The style of Fatimid governance, thus marks a major milestone in the development of the inclusive Fatimid model.
It notes to sunnis and other muslims speaks for itself :
It notes to sunnis and other muslims speaks for itself :
You shall continue in your madhhab. You shall be permitted to perform your obligations according to religious scholarship, and to gather for it in your congregational and other mosques, and to remain steadfast in the beliefs of your ancestors and those who succeeded them,
Over the course of their two and a half century rule, from 909 to 1171 CE, the Fatimids, a Shi‘i Ismaili dynasty, developed a model of governance recognised both in medieval and modern times for its inclusive nature; particularly for the participation of Christians,Muslims and Jews in the state administration.During the Fatimid reign, Muslim and non-Muslim communities were by and large permitted the performance of their religious rituals and obligations.
The Fatimid sponsorship of mosques and congregational spaces was retained not only for the construction of new Fatimid mosques, such as al-Azhar and al-Anwar, but was also extended to Sunni religious spaces.
The latitude afforded to the Christian , Muslims and Jewish communities in the maintenance of their spaces of worship and the performance of their religious rituals became one of the notable features of Fatimid reign, as recorded by Severus Ibn al-Muqaffa (d. 987 CE), the Coptic bishop of al-Ashmunayn, who was among the most well-regarded theologians and writers of the Coptic Church in the early medieval period.
It was the safeguarding of the Coptic spaces of worship by the fatimids that led Ibn al-Muqaffa to remark that there was ‘great peace for the churches’ in the reigns of the Fatimids...but this was whilst the Ismailis were still around...
The functioning of Christian religious life was further realised in the state protection of the performance of their public festivals.
Al-Maqrizi notes in his Khitat that numerous Christian festivals were celebrated during the Fatimid era,
The integration of Sunni judges in the Fatimid judiciary illustrates the negotiation between upholding their own universalist claim and maintaining the legal validity of other Muslim schools of law.
Upon his accession over Egypt, Imam al-Mu‘izz retained the Maliki qadi Abu Tahir as his Chief Justice, a role which the latter had occupied in the previous Ikhshidid administration.
Reminiscent of the co-existence policy of Imams al-Mansur, al-Mu‘izz also appointed a son of Qadi al-Nu‘man, Ali b. al-Nu‘man, alongside the Sunni Qadi, an arrangement that continued under Imam al-Aziz, until paralysis led the Sunni Qadi to present his resignation in 976 CE. Of the 16 years Abu Tahir served as chief qadi of Egypt, seven were thus in the service of the Fatimid caliphate.
References to several judges from different Sunni and Shi‘i madhhabs being appointed to the judiciary were fairly commonplace in subsequent Fatimid reigns
Doctrinally, their model was underpinned by a universalist notion of authority of the divinely designated Imam-caliph.
Pragmatically, the model evolved with their experience of governing diverse communities across a vast terrain.
This led to a relationship between the state and its diverse subjects, which fluctuated with time and circumstance.
While participation of non-Muslims in the administration of Muslim polities was common in the formative period of Muslim rule, Fatimid governance has been presented in medieval Muslim chronicles and in modern scholarship as being exceptional in this regard....so what is this guy Siddiqui talking? Just rubbish !
Varied arguments have been postulated as to why, the Fatimid approach to governance as a Shi‘i minority was seeking support from other minority groups....this is how even the Prophet would have handled it...
The Fatimid claim to universal authority was asserted in direct opposition to that of the then reigning Abbasid caliphs (whom Saladin represented in reality but surreptiously accepted the position of a Vazier also with the Fatimids... Abbassid caliph was trying to emulate the Shi‘i model of the Imamate harkening back to the notion of the Imam being authoritative in law and doctrine.
In their early years the Abbasids had sought to realise a similar model as that of the Fatimids.
In the 9th century, they exerted strenuous efforts to stem the rising prestige of the proto-Sunni religious scholars, the ulama, with the caliph al-Ma’mun’s so-called mihna (or ‘trial’) and the inquisition of Ahmad b. Hanbal (780-855 CE) being a case in point; but they were swimming against the consensual Sunni tide.
The mihna had been instituted by al-Ma’mun (r. 813-833 CE) to ensure he was recognised as the supreme authority on law and doctrine...but failed !
Religious scholars were put through ‘trials’ to enforce their compliance with al-Ma’mun’s position
The Fatimid model of the Caliphate was thus a novel phenomenon in the Muslim world of the 10th century,
The Fatimid model of the Caliphate was thus a novel phenomenon in the Muslim world of the 10th century,
The distinction of the Fatimid model of governance stemmed from how the Fatimid Imam-caliph, as ruler of a vast empire, exercised this authority.
As authoritative exponents of doctrine, every Fatimid Imam was able to reform and reformulate, to adapt and to alter, and thus to negotiate the relationship between the ruler and the ruled, as he deemed appropriate.
The notion of the living Imam as the ultimate arbiter of human affairs meant that the Fatimid sovereigns had the potential to be authoritarian, with unfettered power at their disposal....but
A study of their governance structures reveals that by and large, they maintained an inclusive approach to governance...e.g al-Mansur’s appointment of a Maliki administrator over Qayrawan instead of an Ismaili or a Shi‘i one....OR the treacherous Saladin's appointment as a Vazier !
This was replicated across other Fatimid regions where Sunni qadis were appointed over towns which had a Sunni majority, while retaining Ismaili qadis over the Fatimid cities of al-Mahdiyya and al-Mansuriyya.
Hence, two judicial systems with their own legal codes were given official sanction and support.
In all likelihood, it is this development towards more inclusive governance which saw al-Mansur being held in particular regard by the Sunnis of Ifriqiya.
The Aman document was publically read out to the populace of Egypt on the eve of the Fatimid conquest.
It set out a blueprint of Fatimid governance.
Its stipulations represent a practical manifestation of the principles of Fatimid governance, namely, an administration that sought social stability, justice and prosperity fostered by the universalist authority of the Fatimid Imam-caliph.
It reflected the developing conceptual underpinnings that subsequently became the standard by which they reigned in Egypt for the next two centuries.
The import of the Aman document continued to reverberate in Egyptian historiography as well as in Ismaili writings over the subsequent centuries
The medieval Mediterranean littoral was a region inhabited by people of diverse ethnic backgrounds and religious persuasions.
This was evident in 10th century Egypt, the mainstay of Fatimid domains, a land in which lived Arabs, Turks, Greeks, Armenians, Berbers and Sudanese - among whom were Sunni and Shia Muslims, Coptic, Melkite and Nestorian Christians, as well as Rabbanite and Qaraite Jews.
It was in this milieu that the Fatimids established the first Shi‘i Empire across the southern shores of the Mediterranean, from the Atlantic Ocean to the Red Sea.
